Monday, January 08, 2007

"Time is a Great Equalizer"

Its been said that “Time is the Great Equalizer” this being the case then the LDS church has little hope before time takes a huge toll out on Mormonism.

In the early days of the church, Joseph Smith made plausible claims regarding the inhabitants of this continent. At the “time” his explanation, as seen in his Book of Mormon, seemed within the realm of believability. The great American West had only recently been explored and was still slowly releasing its secrets. Other seemingly authoritative figures seemed in sink with Smith’s explanations...after all Native American Populations springing from Israel bloodlines was not an original elucidation on Smith's part.

But Smith made one huge mistake...he didn’t postulate his explanation of the origination of the American Indian as he stated it as FACT...even was a fact from God Himself.

At first (as is the case in many frauds) Smith struck gold.... as information coming from Central American explorations seemed to lend support to the claims Smith had made through his Book of Mormon. Reports started to circulate throughout the country of massive, formerly unknown civilizations that had previously existed on the American continent. These extinct societies seemed at first to fit within the parameters set up by Smith in his book. Mormonism thrived. Mormonism’s adherents could look at real cities, actual buildings, artifacts and cultures and boldly proclaim with pride that these are the remnants of the people described in the book Joseph wrote. The prophet Joseph told us they were look here they are. Mormon Missionaries would travel throughout the world spreading the word...that the Native American population consisted of three middle eastern immigrations...and look there are three distinct civilized Central American populations that flourished in the Americas...just like the Book of Mormon claims.

Enterprising Mormons even went so far as to organize tour groups so that the truly believing could walk were Nephi and Lehi had supposedly walked.

But time is the final great equalizer...and time has not been good to the claims of Joseph Smith nor his book.

Today we know that not one single thread of evidence has been found that supports even one of the claims made in the Book of Mormon.

* Millions of so called descendants of father Lehi have simply evaporated into thin air as DNA has confirm that Native American populations are of Asian descent not of Israel bloodlines

* Despite millions of tithing dollars having been spent in a failed attempt to find actual physical proof supporting a Nephite and Lamanites date nothing supportive has materialized.

* Central American Civilizations formerly tagged by Mormons as proof of Book of Mormon people have been found NOT to support Book of Mormon claims but have actually been shown to support those who theorized that these populations originated in Asia.

* Mormon General Authorities who formerly proudly proclaimed Native Americas as Lamanites, have completely retreated...some have even postulated in private that North American Indians are NOT descended from direct contrast to Mormon Scripture.

* The Mormon Church has even changed the name from its formerly known “Lamanite Generation” dancing troop...removing all reference to the word “Lamanite”

* Pacific Natives also once proudly claimed as descendants of the Americas...have been found to have immigrated from southeast Asia...NOT the Mormon theology has claimed for 150 years

* And in a sad attempt to shore up its foundations the Mormon Church has even had to resort to a schizophrenic duel theory for the actual setting of the Book of Mormon...because old Hemispheric setting were being found to be unsupportive of Book of Mormon claims.

Each new discovery seems to whittle away at the very foundations of Mormon dogma...until today the church can not point to a single person alive today say definitively “This is a Lamanite“. Leaving the burning question.... Who the Fuck was the Book of Mormon written for then if not to the so-called descendants of Lehi? Wasn‘t this book of Mormon scripture supposed to help convert Lehi’s offspring? So where the Fuck are they?

No time has NOT been good to the claims of Mormonism...and I dare say this trend will only intensify as TIME goes by.


Anonymous said...


I love your writing and reasoning. I wonder, have you ever thought or written about the comparisons between J. Smith and L. Ron Hubbard. It seems to me they are both men who wrote stories that they eventually believed to be TRUTH...

Brad said...

In one your points you state: "Mormon General Authorities who formerly proudly proclaimed Native Americas as Lamanites, have completely retreated...some have even postulated in private that North American Indians are NOT descended from direct contrast to Mormon Scripture." Do you have a reference for this? I would be very interested in reading it.

Cr@ig said...

Boyd K. Packer (Senior Apostle over Lamanite affairs9)

There are more than 60 million people of Lamanite extraction. It is no accident that the Church now prospers among them in Mexico, Central and South America, in the islands of the sea, and among the Indian tribes of North America. (“President Spencer W. Kimball: No Ordinary Man,” Ensign, Mar. 1974, 3ff).

In contrast to the relatively few in North America who could claim Lamanite lineage (1.3 million), Packer pointed to the many millions in Mexico, Yucatan, Guatemala, and throughout South America: “In all … there are seventy-five million six hundred thousand who share in your [Native American Lamanite] birthright, of whom thrity-one million nine hundred ninety thousand are pure Indians.” (Address given during proceedings of the annual Indian Week at BYU, cited by Armand L. Mauss, All Abraham’s Children, p. 96).

Sister Mary Lisa said...

Craig, great post. Really great writing. I hope you post more often.

Just one of many said...

I wish time was a Terminator instead of an Equalizer!! Good post!

Anonymous said...

Yeh! Your back.

Wendy said...

Hi Craig,

great to see you are posting again.I was actually just thinking about this issue yesterday and wondering how they were going to respond to the DNA evidence. I guess the only way is the usual way...cover it up with another lie!
Welcome back!


Doug Forbes said...

Modern Jews and Native Americans share common DNA lineages. For example, the Q-P36 Y-chromosome lineage is found in 31% of American Indians in the US, (Hammer 2005) 5% of Ashkenazi Jews (Behar 2004) and 5% of Iraqi Jews. (Shen 2004) Most scientists believe that Q-P36 entered America long before Book of Mormon (BoM) times. This, of course, does not mean that a strain of Q-P36 could not have made a late entry. However, mainstream science has a problem with this lineage they have not yet been able to resolve in a way that supports their theories.

In 1996 Dr. Peter Underhill, a PhD from Stanford University calculated that the most recent common male ancestor of most Native Americans lived 2147 prior or 151 BC. He determined this from the genetic diversity of Y-chromosomes in living Native Americans. Essentially he counted mutations and applied a rate of 2.1 per 1000 (Weber & Wong) and a generation length of 27 years. This date can, of course, be adjusted by altering variables like the generation length. For example with a generation length of 32.65 years, a date of 600 BC is obtained.

Even faster mutation rates of 2.8 per 1000 have been observed in father/son pairs (Kayser). However, Underhill has never believed that this date was true. He and a colleague named Zhivotovsky have spent a good deal of time developing what they call an ‘effective’ mutation rate. The theory is that even though rates of 2.1 per 1000 (Weber & Wong) and 2.8 per 1000 (Kayser) have been observed in living populations, that mutations don’t really accumulate that fast over thousands of years. Their effective rate is 6.9 per 10000 or 0.69 per 1000.[1]

In 2006, a study by Pakendorf et al. used the mutation rate observed by Kayser (2.8 per 1000) and got a pretty accurate date for the migration of the Yakuts. Pakendorf states, “… it has recently been proposed that ‘effective’ mutation rates (Zhivotovsky et al. 2004), which are not based on pedigree studies but on archaeologically calibrated migrations, may reflect the true historical processes better than pedigree rates. Using the average ‘effective’ rate of 6.9 [per 1000] calculated by Zhivotovsky et al. (2004) results in a much greater age of the Yakut male expansion of approximately 3800 years … However, these older dates are inconsistent with linguistic and archaeological evidence: … the split of Yakut from Common Turkic cannot be earlier than 1,500 years BP.” [2]

Applying these faster mutation rates to American Indians gives dates for the most recent common ancestor that range from 2147 to 2750; well within BoM times.


[1] Zhivotovsky LA, Underhill PA, Feldman MW (2006) “Difference between evolutionarily effective and germ line mutation rate due to stochastically varying haplogroup size”

[2] Brigitte Pakendorf et al (2006), “Investigating the effects of Prehistoric migrations in Siberia: genetic variation and the origins of Yakuts” | Hum Genet (2006) 120:334–353 | DOI 10.1007/s00439-006-0213-2

Anonymous said...

I find it interesting both sides of the DNA battle point to their own "studies" that prove their point(s) and claim they disprove other DNA evidence. I think the DNA issue will be battled about for years to come, and not being a scientist and having to make a judgement on this issue. It seems to me that the LDS Church relies heavily upon the work of FARMS and allies of the church to support their claims. While there are "many" more independent voices without a religious ax to grind that find the American Indian does not share DNA with ancient Hebrews, and that indeed the American Indian came from Siberia or Mongolia.

Hmmmmmmm, believe the church who has the most to lose or independent scientific research? Let me sleep on this one.

Anonymous said...

PS, I often wonder if the Church will just crumble under the weight of so much evidence that casts doubt on their claims?

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Steve said...

This guy's claims make me laugh. He believes that the BofM cannot be proved or disproved. Now the claims in the BofM are just theories. But the word of god is fact, not theory, right?!?

Steve said...

Dont think my link came out, the article is HERE

Anonymous said...


Doug Forbes said...

Arizona Expositor says

"...both sides of the DNA battle point to their own "studies" that prove their point(s) and claim they disprove other DNA evidence."

Actually both sides often point to the same studies. One example is Zegura et al 2004. There is a difference, however, between the findings of scientific research and conclusions drawn from it.

"I think the DNA issue will be battled about for years to come,"

I certainly hope so. I want to get my book published too. Why should anti-Mormons have all the fun.

"It seems to me that the LDS Church relies heavily upon the work of FARMS and allies of the church to support their claims."

No. Actually FARMS simply reviews the work of mainstream scientific studies and points out findings that strengthen their view. For example, M F Hammer did a study in 2005 of Y chromosomes in the general population of the US. The Q lineage was found in all groups except Asians.
31.2% Native Americanss
3.8% Latinos
0.6% Anglos
0.2% Blacks
0% Asians

26.9% Native Americans
7.8% Latinos
0.1% Anglos
0% blacks
0% Asians

"While there are "many" more independent voices without a religious ax to grind that find the American Indian does not share DNA with ancient Hebrews"

No mainstream scientist engaged in genetic research of Native American origins has ever said "the American Indian does not share DNA with ancient Hebrews".

The lineages found in both Native Americans and modern Jews existed before ancient Israel existed and before any human set foot in America. For example, Q is 20000 years old. There is no particular reason to think the Middle East remained Q-free for 17400 years.

Randy said...

Well, IMHO, the actual truth or falsity of the Church's historical claims is completely irrelevant to the vast majority of Mormons. It's how the church works or doesn't work for them in their daily lives that matters. Joseph Smith and Brigham Young are to the average Mormon what Chairman Mao is to the average Chinese--a figure who is revered in theory, but most of whose teachings are ignored in practice.

Dad said...

use of the 'f' word doesn't support your argument.

Dad said...

I appreciate the work you are doing however!

polarpaul said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
polarpaul said...

I deleted my earlier comment which I felt didn't provide adequate evidence to support the points I wanted to make and have replaced it with this one.

Here's a 1991 paper that talks about the origins of native Americans which they concluded was Asian and talks about how the Europeans don't have the same genetic markers.

Here's a YouTube video put out by Living Hope Ministries which features some ex-Mormons who left the church or are skeptical of the historical accuracy of the Book of Mormon because genetic evidence doesn't support hebrew origins. This video was obviously made to discredit the LDS church, but it'd be interesting to follow-up on some of the points they make to see if they're valid.

Here's an article about David Glen Smith from UC Davis that talks about one of his research programs. Interestingly enough, some native American tribes object to these genetic studies because they conflict with their religious/spiritual beliefs. He's one of the genetic researchers featured in the Living Hope Ministries video.

Anonymous said...


I appreciate what you are trying to show here. Would suggest that your points would be even more powerful if they were one: each backed up with specific footnotes and two: were not diminished by the certain angst you express when using profanity. I've been known to swear plenty to make a point...but somehow it just rings of anger. Whereas a truly wise man is not offended by the words or actions of others. Truth can be excavated, if we are willing to do the work, and keep it in a simple format that welcomes all minds to the table.


~ A